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US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 4:31 UTC (Tue) by magfr (subscriber, #16052)
Parent article: US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

I think the GPL and use of the code in mutions gives some rather absurd situations.

Assume that someone fires a cruise missile on you and that there is a GPL component in the cruise missile.

Further assume that the missile is a dud. Ain't you lucky?

Now, you have recieved a device with a copy of GPL software, and we can assume that you aren't part of the senders organization, so I suppose there have to be a written offer somewhere on the missile where you could ask for a copy of the software.

What happens if you exercise your rights? The GPL does not say that the sender can't send a commando team to deliver your code (and execute you) so would you dare to use the rights? (Incidentally I think it do say that they can't charge you for the commando team but that is not much help in this situation)

Is this a loophole in the GPL?


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US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 4:37 UTC (Tue) by tnoo (subscriber, #20427) [Link]

Sounds like a Monty Python sketch, very funny.

Linux distribution

Posted Jun 12, 2012 4:40 UTC (Tue) by tnoo (subscriber, #20427) [Link]

"Linux Distribution" get's a whole new meaning.

Linux distribution

Posted Jun 12, 2012 7:12 UTC (Tue) by spaetz (guest, #32870) [Link]

But Linux world domination can be admittedly achieved much easier this way...

Linux distribution

Posted Jun 12, 2012 23:44 UTC (Tue) by Pc5Y9sbv (guest, #41328) [Link]

No, "end user" gets a whole new meaning...

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 5:21 UTC (Tue) by atai (subscriber, #10977) [Link]

If Iran captures one of such drones. Is Iran entitled to the source?

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 12:27 UTC (Tue) by pboddie (subscriber, #50784) [Link]

No, because the US would regard the capture of the drone as theft. Even stuff that the US leaves behind intentionally isn't automatically the property of the recipient, so when one's country gets littered with cluster bombs, the US is presumably responsible for the de-mining bill and any littering penalties, although expect the goalposts to move when the stuff left behind isn't militarily sensitive and/or is hazardous and expensive to clean up.

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 14:34 UTC (Tue) by dashesy (guest, #74652) [Link]

Well, the address is exactly specified somewhere, so it cannot be a theft, they only perform the act of opening the attachment to an unusual form of distribution. However, since they most likely redistribute the code to their northern neighbor, there might be a problem if there is any trade secrets.

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 19:12 UTC (Tue) by pboddie (subscriber, #50784) [Link]

What address? In any case, the equipment remains the property of the US military at all times, at least in their eyes, so they can always claim ownership even if someone else actually has it in their possession.

You could think of it as something like a Tivo box, but without even the acknowledgement that someone else is allowed to operate the software.

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 13, 2012 5:06 UTC (Wed) by scientes (guest, #83068) [Link]

Also, Iran, unlike most countries, has zero formal agreement with the United States regarding copyrights.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-United_States_copyrigh...

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 13, 2012 11:24 UTC (Wed) by JanC_ (guest, #34940) [Link]

And all this because the US has vetoed Iran's requests to become a member of the WTO for decades...

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 6:00 UTC (Tue) by cmccabe (guest, #60281) [Link]

Looks like you're right.

from http://www.cendi.gov/publications/04-8copyright.html

> 5.1.1 Does the U.S. Government have any special rights to use copyrighted
> material?
>
> No, the U.S. Government can be held liable for violation of the Copyright
> Laws. Congress has expressly provided that a work protected by the
> Copyright Laws can be infringed by the United States (28 USC §
> 1498(b))117. The exclusive action for such infringement is an action by
> the copyright owner against the United States in the Court of Federal
> Claims for the recovery of monetary damages. However, there is no
> contributory copyright infringement on the part of the Government because
> it hasn't waived sovereign immunity rights. (John C. Boyle, 200 F.3d 1369
> (Fed. Cir. 2000)118.
>
> While the Government may rely on fair use, the use of materials by the
> Government is not automatically a fair use. The U.S. Department of
> Justice, Office of Legal Counsel, has stated in a U.S. Department of
> Justice opinion dated April 30, 1999,119 that "while government
> reproduction of copyrighted material for governmental use would in many
> contexts be non-infringing because it would be a 'fair use' under 17 USC §
> 107, there is no 'per se' rule under which such government reproduction of
> copyrighted material invariably qualifies as a fair use."

Now I guess we get to argue over whether extrajudicial executions constitue "fair use." I wonder what the MPAA's position would be?

Also, if the source comes with a commando squad attached, that hardly seems to be the "preferred form."

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 6:15 UTC (Tue) by cmccabe (guest, #60281) [Link]

Actually, I thought about this a little more and I think they're taking the view that sending the drones on a mission doesn't constitute "distribution." So they should be ok.

yeah... I'm definitely taking your post a little too seriously... heh.

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 7:19 UTC (Tue) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

I think so. The question here is intent, and the intent of someone launching a missile at you is that the missile should explode. This would naturally deny you any use of the code running on the missile, and should probably not be counted as distribution (just as it is not counted as a gift of very expensive hardware to the target). Since distribution was not intended by the sender, I don't see how copyright law could apply. (Also, arguing legalities like that with someone who can launch missiles is unwise in some jurisdictions: even in the US, 'no-one ever got rich suing city hall'.)

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 10:06 UTC (Tue) by tao (subscriber, #17563) [Link]

I'm not so sure intent-based arguing works for anyone else than missile owners though...

"But your honour, I only intended to use that public ftp server as a backup of my music/film/software collection, it wasn't intended as filesharing"

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 11:00 UTC (Tue) by jspaleta (subscriber, #50639) [Link]

How about a private ftp server with an easy to guess user and password combination such as anonymous/anonymous or maybe admin/admin. Or perhaps you leave the door to your house(dorm room) unlocked and someone makes a copy of your data without your express permission. We can cut this line of argument as thin as we want to...and still not have avoided the inevitable situation of having to watch something go to court to create precedent.

End of the day, The US government is in a unique position in that it can redefine the rules for itself at the drop of a hat. Already there are clauses in the US code which set statutory limits on damages the federal government can pay as well to a US citizen who makes an infringement claim. And in fact those clauses actually define a concept of willful intent to set the damage aware(so yes intent does come into play to some extent). However compared to the cost of the lost munition itself, the maximum capped damage award is really not that big of a cost. I fully expect that if the issue of munitions (or generally captured US military equipment) comes up for discussion in a court room Congress will feel the urge to carve this out as an explicit fair-use case without losing much sleep over it.

The DoD is doing the bulk of protecting itself by demanding contractors hand over ownership of any proprietary code to the Defense Department instead of holding on to it as a contractor. Which is interesting...

But the real question I have, and I'm sure this will actually be put to the test at some point is the following. Is the federal government really one entity or does distribution clauses latch when one governmental agency hands code to another agency? Is the Defense department itself one entity? Handing code between the Navy and the Airforce..does that latch the distribution clause? They have their own separate logistics and r&d budgets..managed as separate from a day-to-day logistics pov. If they share it with Homeland...is it distribution? I'm really not sure that the federal government can be view as one entity for the purposes of distribution. I'm not even sure the DoD should be view that way...considering how compartmentalized and resource competitive each agency inside the DoD is with the others.

-jef

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 11:22 UTC (Tue) by vonbrand (guest, #4458) [Link]

Presumably the US Navy has no qualms distributing the source to the US Air Force...

Entities

Posted Jun 12, 2012 14:13 UTC (Tue) by rfunk (subscriber, #4054) [Link]

I don't see how the Federal Government is any less a single entity than a large corporation like IBM is, no matter how much individual divisions might compete for resources.

Entities

Posted Jun 13, 2012 5:27 UTC (Wed) by scientes (guest, #83068) [Link]

I don't see how the Human Race is any less a single entity than a diverse species like dogs are, no matter how much individual sovereigns might compete for resources.

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 16:08 UTC (Tue) by xtifr (guest, #143) [Link]

Intent-based arguing always works. The problem is showing your intent is what you say it is. Your actual behavior is generally considered a stronger indicator of your actual intent than your words--people often make excuses when facing prosecution.

In the case of your ftp site, the fact that you set it up for public access is likely to be a strong counter-argument to your claim that it was for personal use. Especially if it can be shown that you knew how to set up a private ftp site and/or the plaintiffs can find any evidence that you revealed the site's existence to others.

Intent is why "loopholes" in the GPL, like distributing patches-only, generally don't work (ask NeXT about this one).

On the flip side, with the missiles, if the enemy capturing a missile and reverse-engineering it were to count as distribution, then it probably wouldn't be safe to use any software except BSD-licensed. Microsoft would be no happier about having their code copied than a GPL author.

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 12:01 UTC (Tue) by freemars (subscriber, #4235) [Link]

The question here is intent, and the intent of someone launching a missile at you is that the missile should explode.
...
should probably not be counted as distribution

The intent is widespread distribution. Clearly a violation.

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 16:39 UTC (Tue) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link]

High speed, high pressure distribution. It will make you yearn for the days that the GPL was merely viral.

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 10:03 UTC (Tue) by etienne (guest, #25256) [Link]

It is not distribution all right, but is it conveyance?
> To “convey” a work means any kind of propagation that enables other parties to make or receive copies. Mere interaction with a user through a computer network, with no transfer of a copy, is not conveying.
Else they have to limit the drone/missile to GPL v2 only (unless they claim it is a "Mere interaction with a user")... -:)

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 13, 2012 5:29 UTC (Wed) by scientes (guest, #83068) [Link]

Merely interacting with the user's ability to continue living ;)

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 7:58 UTC (Tue) by dgm (subscriber, #49227) [Link]

(Incidentally I think it do say that they can't charge you for the commando team but that is not much help in this situation)

They can charge you, but no more than "reasonable". Anybody knows how much is a commando mission these days?

From the GPL v.3:
"6.b) Convey the object code in, or embodied in, a physical product (including a physical distribution medium), accompanied by a written offer, valid for at least three years and valid for as long as you offer spare parts or customer support for that product model, to give anyone who possesses the object code either (1) a copy of the Corresponding Source for all the software in the product that is covered by this License, on a durable physical medium customarily used for software interchange, for a price no more than your reasonable cost of physically performing this conveying of source, or (2) access to copy the Corresponding Source from a network server at no charge."

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 10:07 UTC (Tue) by tao (subscriber, #17563) [Link]

I don't think you could argue that a commando team constitutes "a durable physical medium customarily used for software interchange" though...

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 13:33 UTC (Tue) by sorpigal (guest, #36106) [Link]

Never underestimate the physical, durable nature of a commando team carrying backup tapes.

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 14, 2012 16:07 UTC (Thu) by Mity (guest, #85011) [Link]

I believe every commando member makes his best to be as durable as possible.

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 10:40 UTC (Tue) by debacle (subscriber, #7114) [Link]

I can't see any loophole here. US Navy has mainly two options:

  1. Send another missile containing the source code.
  2. Have the source code embedded in any missile in the first place.

The latter option is cheaper, the former option is preferable from a military POV (second chance to kill your enemy a.k.a. innocent children).

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 12:06 UTC (Tue) by markhb (guest, #1003) [Link]

Leaving aside both the humor and the inflammatory comments about intentionally targeting children, you all do realize that

1) the drones in this instance are actually reconnaissance platforms, not warhead-carrying missiles, and their intended use involves them returning to their launching site rather than exploding, and

2) the Linux software in question is for ground control, and therefore presumably will stay at the ground control site in Maryland rather than actually being loaded onto the drones themselves

... right?

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 12:46 UTC (Tue) by debacle (subscriber, #7114) [Link]

My comment was not related to the original article about drones, but a response to the question of magfr, whether there is a problem in using GPLed software in missiles. My reference to the US Navy was, of course, out of that scope. Sorry, if this lead to misinterpretion.

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 12:46 UTC (Tue) by etienne (guest, #25256) [Link]

But if you capture enough drones,
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2011/12/more_on_the...
either illegally from the point of view of some US representatives;
or fully legally considering the point of view of the people actually living in the land;
you may want to duplicate the control center to use them, the GPL may then help you...

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 14:35 UTC (Tue) by ewan (subscriber, #5533) [Link]

From the article: "can also be fitted 70mm rockets as needed for other missions".

Presumably those are reconnaissance rockets then.

the /rocket/ isn't running Linux

Posted Jun 12, 2012 16:14 UTC (Tue) by tialaramex (subscriber, #21167) [Link]

The drone is a reconnaissance vehicle, the 70mm rocket is a weapon.

It is quite normal for a reconnaissance mission to be armed. Military forces rarely perform reconnaissance missions on targets known to be friendly, that would be pointless. The distinction from an attack is that the primary _goal_ of the mission is to obtain information.

If they just want to blow something up from a long way away they don't need a drone, ballistic missiles have been available for more than half a century.

the /rocket/ isn't running Linux

Posted Jun 12, 2012 16:40 UTC (Tue) by drag (guest, #31333) [Link]

The CIA and Military have often retrofired their older "reconnaissance drones" drones to carry out strikes on targets.

Of course nowadays they have have given up the pretense and lies about the planned uses of unmanned drones, so these may really be just for reconnaissance. They have much larger and more powerful drones for carrying a wide variety of ordinance now then they had in the past.

Right now I expect they are aiming to eliminate the need for civilian contractors to handle the drones in a Xbox fashion. Maybe the goal with these is to explore and establish the procedures of more more autonomous craft. So they can reduce the number of operational people needed in large scale sorties. So before with older systems you'd need 20 operators for 10 drones you might get away with 20 operators for 200 or 300 drones.

As far as drones vs cruise missiles; I am sure that drones have a number of advantages over cruise missiles. One of them is, I expect, they can loiter over a area for long periods of time and be used to identify targets before striking. That way when they bomb a residence of 20 or 30 people the lawyers in the State Department and/or the Military can be reasonably sure that at least one of them is a likely target. Since hte drone is weaponized and already in the area you don't have to wait long before the approval process to finished before you carry out the actually attack. Another likely advantage is that larger drones can be used to carry multiple warheads and weapon platforms that will give them more flexibility and multiple strike capabilities that older more primitive cruise missiles lacked. Especially for 'soft targets'. And in addition they are re-usable so the total operational of cost over a period of months or years is much less then with using a long string of big cruise missiles.

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 13, 2012 5:31 UTC (Wed) by scientes (guest, #83068) [Link]

Linux also runs on MMU-less ultra-embedded platforms, of which it is used by NASA and the the like.

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 15:37 UTC (Tue) by SiliconSlick (guest, #39955) [Link]

Assuming in either case that the vehicles(s) used were duds and failed to self-terminate/detonate, how receptive will the upstream distributor (the US Navy in this case) be about receiving updates via the same delivery vehicle (of course, with any software updates/fixes applied... e.g. bug #42393 - failed to detonate)???

I could see that leading to some very rapid development... at least in the short term.

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 13, 2012 16:14 UTC (Wed) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

There is a third option: a single sheet of paper containing a written offer. If the source code is requested, it gets airdropped and/or delivered via commando-team distribution as suggested elsewhere in this thread. :)

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 12:01 UTC (Tue) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link]

The US Navy will "mail" you a copy of the source on another missile, I guess. If the mechanism is good enough to convey the binary code, it should be good enough to convey the source. :)

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 12, 2012 13:08 UTC (Tue) by Tara_Li (guest, #26706) [Link]

Well, it's not like the *device drivers* have to be GPL. Those are non-GPL loadable kernel modules.

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Jun 13, 2012 10:04 UTC (Wed) by drago01 (subscriber, #50715) [Link]

> Assume that someone fires a cruise missile on you and that there is a GPL component in the cruise missile.

Well there are using a GPLv2 kernel ... this does not imply that everything else is GPL.

They could as well just have a userspace application that has the "secret bits" which is using some proprietary license.

Also firing a missile is no way "distribution".

US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)

Posted Dec 5, 2012 14:16 UTC (Wed) by ekram (guest, #70515) [Link]

Stepping back a bit, does this situation also apply to something like an ATM cash machine?

If not, what's the difference?


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